Topic: 2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (page 122) (2024)

posted: 10/12/2021 at 4:56 PM
modified: 10/12/2021 at 4:56 PM

Top 3 in Tokyo in the marathon were all wearing the VF Next% 2. Probably tells you all you need to know.

I would disagree. They are elites, and probably most of them are sponsored by Nike or something like that. I would argue that if Kipchoge allowed to run in NB 1400v2, he would have no problems to win any marathon he runs. Correlation doesn’t imply causation.

posted: 10/12/2021 at 5:00 PM

I would disagree. They are elites, and probably most of them are sponsored by Nike or something like that. I would argue that if Kipchoge allowed to run in NB 1400v2, he would have no problems to win any marathon he runs. Correlation doesn’t imply causation.

I don't think Mark is saying Nike is the best because they're all wearing it, but rather they chose the VF instead of the AF, which has been happening for 18 months at this point.

5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM:2:36:31 (12/19)

posted: 10/12/2021 at 5:12 PM

I don't think Mark is saying Nike is the best because they're all wearing it, but rather they chose the VF instead of the AF, which has been happening for 18 months at this point.

Yep exactly. Even #1 Alphafly flagship guy Kipchoge was in the Next% 2 instead.

3,000m:9:07.7 (Nov-21)| 5,000m:15:39 (Dec-19) |10,000m:32:34 (Mar-20)

10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM:1:09:41 (May-21)*|FM:2:41:41 (Oct-20)

* Net downhill course

Last race:Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

Up next:Still working on that...

"CONSISTENCY IS KING"

posted: 10/12/2021 at 5:22 PM

Cal: Great job not bailing and going all out even after realizing it wasn't your day. 3:04 isn't what you wanted, but its nothing to scoff at.

Flavio: Good race and nice RR. I liked the conclusions you made from this training block. I definitely agree that it would help to have a shorter period of marathon specific training. It's something I'd like to implement for my next race.

DW: Despite all of the troubles throughout the week your marathon pace segment of the long run seems to have improved, so great news on that front.

RP: Really nice mileage. I'd say you have a great chance to PR at CIM if you keep that mileage up.

JT: I've seen your runs on strava. How is the foot? Any improvement?

JMac: Those long MP segments really build the confidence. A well executed 12 miles over hilly terrain is definitely a reason to be confident.

Keen: 78 miles on a cutback is very impressive!

My week:

60 miles

M: off

T: 10 miles easy (8:58)

W: 10 miles easy (8:59)

T: off

F: 14 miles progressive (8:15)

S: 8 miles easy (9:06)

S: 18 mile long run with one mile on, one mile off for the second half ("on" paces of 6:56, 6:51, 6:46, 6:17)

Delayed weekly from me. Was out of town again, this will be the last weekend away until the marathon thankfully. Sunday was the first time I got anything at MP since my knees began acting up. Felt really good, I wanted to get some faster running in, but not over do anything so I opted to begin just above MP and work my way down with aerobic miles in between. The first three felt very in control and I was feeling really strong so I decided to hammer the last half mile of the last rep (probably not the smartest thing to do when dealing with random niggles, but I'm still feeling good).

posted: 10/12/2021 at 7:04 PM

Top 3 in Tokyo in the marathon were all wearing the VF Next% 2. Probably tells you all you need to know.

New York Marathon is the current goal following Boston. Tokyo? Wasn't Tokyo canceled for the past two years due to (literally) COVID 19?

JMac wait....you're still in 4% shoes and you're telling ME to go Next percent? Pot meet stove with the cast iron resemblance.

Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

VDOT 53.37

5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

posted: 10/12/2021 at 9:58 PM
modified: 10/12/2021 at 10:00 PM

New York Marathon is the current goal following Boston. Tokyo? Wasn't Tokyo canceled for the past two years due to (literally) COVID 19?

JMac wait....you're still in 4% shoes and you're telling ME to go Next percent? Pot meet stove with the cast iron resemblance.

Apparently I'm Mark's interpreter tonight. By Tokyo, he meant Tokyo Olympics, i.e. the top 3 in Saporro. Who's on first?

I'm in the flyknit version. I wasn't convinced the Next was worth it and I really loved what I had. Now though that my VF is nearing the end of its racing life, I needed another shoe and the Next2 was it, which does feel like a slight upgrade vs. the Next.

JHud:forgot to add, nice week. I like the simplicity of it while still beaing perfect for a marathon.

5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM:2:36:31 (12/19)

posted: 10/13/2021 at 2:20 AM
modified: 10/13/2021 at 2:22 AM

As for my race - well, somehow I didn't feel the real energy from the start....

....no excuses - I might say it was a sore throat bug I've got from my daughter on Friday, I could say it was non ideal weather, I could certainly say I am getting really older (I think that's the most valid reason

If it was age then you are nearly 4 min slower from being 6 weeks older. Nope. Not with the quality of those LT sessions the last few weeks.

Feeling off from the start,I reckon bug & weather in that order.

Next: Ballarat, April 28, Pacing 3:50

Best: 5k 19:46 (Parkrun, 2016), 10k 40:37 (Track, 2022), Half 1:26:41 (2016), Full 3:00:23 (2021)

JTReeves

posted: 10/13/2021 at 6:01 AM

Cal: Thanks for the write-up on your race. I really think you are understating the effect of having a cold (I doubt it was completely gone after just a few days) and also the weather. Those two things together are the only thing that prevented a sub 3, a well sub3, in my opinion. Like I mentioned earlier, of all the people I tracked you and 1 other guy were the only ones who had a good race; all the others blew up in a really bad way; times 20-40 min off what they expected. And the other guy was without a cold.So, you shouldn't feel bad about this race, with all things considered.

JT -how are you feeling?

Thanks for asking, still not healed unfortunately. Last week I ran 6 mi one day, felt the pain a bit throughout the run but not too bad, but got greedy and ran again the next day, 8 mi this time, and felt much more pain throughout. That run was a big mistake, since my ankle really hurt badly throughout the day after that run. I took several more days off running and felt almost nothing just walking, and tested it yesterday with a 4 mi run. Then the pain came back, though much less than the previous week. I think this unfortunately will just need a longer time with not running. I can bike, but that is like torture to me so there is not much motivation for it. It sucks, I'm not happy about it, but it will heal and I'll get back to it, just not sure how quickly.

posted: 10/13/2021 at 10:57 AM

Flavio - Finally got to read your RR! Great job sticking it out those last few miles. It's interesting to me how differently we all react to varying temperatures. I must run a bit hotter than you and JMac, as I don't think I'd consider gloves until 45F, and probably not arm sleeves until 40F.
Anyway, it sounds like you have a good plan for how to tackle the next one. Since you like to travel, perhaps we'll see you at CIM next year?

JMac - Definitely do the "ultra" at Route 66! You'll even get a specific marathon time even with that little detour. It's certainly not a PR course (hillier than NYC), but the whole thing is quite fun.
I got a good chuckle over the Kiwi-speak.

RP - Nice week. I'm still a bit envious of your cool temps overnight.

JT - Sorry to hear the ankle is still giving you problems. Hopefully it doesn't take too much time away from running to heal.

5k:17:58 11/22│10k:37:559/21│HM:1:23:224/22│M:2:56:0512/22

Upcoming Races:

July 4 - Firecracker 5k

posted: 10/13/2021 at 1:10 PM
modified: 10/13/2021 at 1:14 PM

Apparently I'm Mark's interpreter tonight. By Tokyo, he meant Tokyo Olympics, i.e. the top 3 in Saporro. Who's on first?

You mean English is not first Mark's language? Where he is from originally?Or maybe it's not RP's first language? I am confused...

JTR, Marby - thanks for reassurance. I feel down anyway - honestly was hoping for much better time. Also, I honestly do not know how that cold/sore throat/flu actually influence our performance. I understand that there could be complications from hard physical activity when sick, but, let's say we ignore that - why we can't perform 100% when sick? Especially in my case - I didn't have fever, I only had sore throat (hard time to swallow without pain) for maybe 2.5 days - Sunday and the marathon day I seemed to be fine - why my performance would suffer. That what bothers me. Just a week before race I was able to run @6:20 pace on flat surface and a week later I was only running 6:40-6:50 on 50-100 ft downhill. Doesn't make sense. But from anything I guess we can get some lessons - avoid sickness during last week before marathon?

But funny how couple of failures can shake your confidence and you start questioning everything

flavio - I do not think you need more speed - 1:22 is way way enough for sub 3 marathon. All you needed is more boring cycle and maybe 10 miles per week more average. Just look at your race laps - you were totally fine until mile 23-24 - that's not speed - that's endurance, and not much of it. You struggled during race, yeah, that's normal - and when you hit your goal at the finish, the struggle seems to be a good thing. but your miss your goal, the struggle seems to be a sign that you are not made for marathon running Believe me, if you really want to achieve sub 3, it's not good time to quit - you are almost there, one or two good boring training cycles and you are there - and with confidence and when you achieve your goal comes a joy from that activity (even if it's a marathon which you thought you hated before . But sure, if you really hate it - you do not need to suffer, chose what you really enjoy.

jhudak - it's funny that you picked 3:04 for my finish time Mathematically I will agree, but the finish time was actually 3:03:58 - so, I am chosing 3:03:XX - basically 3:03 . Good week from you after some turmoil, that 6:17 mile at the end of LR is really god sign.

posted: 10/13/2021 at 1:18 PM

flavio - I hear some sarcasm in your “thank you” - but maybe I am too sensitive. I was trying to be honest with you - that’s it. I usually don’t do that with most of the americans (not this group) as all they wanna hear - “great job” 🤪

Not sarcasm. You provide some really good feedback and you don't filter it so it's easy to understand. Thanks again.

Keen - you're like the little devil in my shoulder talking about CIM next year haha.

Thanks everybody for all the great feedback.

I must confess I'm enjoying being a sedentary lazy ass 😁

posted: 10/13/2021 at 1:54 PM

Cal I suck at speaking English. Too direct and not enough "is this going to hurt feelings" before I say something.

Jmac next percent it is. I'll have to see if they come in orange. Armed with my "fast shoes" (all dads should know this) and the 'commitment to bad ideas' I have to figure out a goal beyond sub 3. I was actually dreaming of a 2:54 yesterday, but I know that is too much. Probably another 2:59x. "good enough to be good enough."

The guy I convinced to try a marathon is going to have me sort of pace him for 7:40/mi intervals today. He is targeting a 3:25. Even having done a half marathon yesterday, and not feeling like I did today, I'm not looking forward to it. I think a lot of it stems from "I had to do this on my own, so you would benefit from doing it on your own." Outside of running with him I find no reason to run, and I can always bail since it isn't MY workout.

Yesterday's run was crazy fast for me. Heart rate must have been due to cold temperatures.

Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

VDOT 53.37

5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

posted: 10/13/2021 at 2:12 PM

5km:18:34 11/23│10km:39:10 8/23│HM:1:26:48 9/23│M:3:29:54 6/24

2024 Races:

Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 20241:29:55

Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 20241:27:34

Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024DNF

Wellington Marathon June 23, 20243:29:54

Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

Timaru Ten October 26, 2024

posted: 10/13/2021 at 2:49 PM

Cal -There's no doubt in my mind that a minor cold has some impact even if you didn't feel sick. Even a 1% energy hit for an event like the Boston Marathon could be disastrous. It's very impressive how you managed the race and prevented a disaster.

Thinking about "disaster" situation. Can you give me an example what would be a disaster, so I would try to avoid it next time too

It's funny how when I switched from mode "have to run that pace" to the mode "will do all I can" at half point, when I understood "no sub 3" and immediately started to get so much more fun from running

posted: 10/13/2021 at 2:56 PM

Thinking about "disaster" situation. Can you give me an example what would be a disaster, so I would try to avoid it next time too

It's funny how when I switched from mode "have to run that pace" to the mode "will do all I can" at half point, when I understood "no sub 3" and immediately started to get so much more fun from running

Heh, I’m guessing disaster is what would have happened if you didn’t accept sub 3 wasn’t possible and kept pushing for it anyway

5km:18:34 11/23│10km:39:10 8/23│HM:1:26:48 9/23│M:3:29:54 6/24

2024 Races:

Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 20241:29:55

Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 20241:27:34

Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024DNF

Wellington Marathon June 23, 20243:29:54

Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

Timaru Ten October 26, 2024